angelfish breeding

hey i am wondering how big are angels have to be to breed? right now i a 4 angel all about quarter size and 2 of them that i bought together i thik may be a pair and they are acualy bigger then a quarter. they are starting to acualy fight now, like the silver is niping at the black. do you think there a pair? i have some photos im uploading now on my profile.

thanks

It's hard to say for sure from that behavior alone. Are they fighting with each other or the other fish?

Pairing behavior can include some stancing (shaking of the body and fins with a domineering forward motion), but the best indicator is how they behave together towards the other fish. As a pair, they will generally team up against everyone else and seemingly defend an area in the tank that they have chosen for their territory.

The fighting could be an early indicator that they're testing each other out to see if they're "worthy" of being a mate, but it could also just be the development of a hierarchy in the tank.

What size of a tank are they in?

Angels typically mature for breeding as they near their first year and are close to fully grown. Age is a better indicator than size, but very young angels have been known to breed, or try to, so it is a possibility. Quarter size is likely pretty young still, but with angels anything is possible.

How old are they? As Leah ( Fishwife) said..size is not always an indicator...it has to do with their age. Some angels has spawned as early as 6 months of age...but that is unusual. It usually happens when they are around a year old. If you see two of them hanging closely with one another..you could have pair forming. Fighting is very typical with Angels. They will fight over territory..you name it. How large is this tank? Angelfish require 10 gallons per fish once they are at maturity.
You honestly will not know if you really have a true pair until spawning takes place...and their spawning tubes are visable.
If you would..could you paste a picture HERE for us?

I've posted in this forum...
the How To's of Breeding Angelfish..
if you care to take a look.
I am sure many others here would love to be of help though..should you have any other questions.

the silver just goes after my black and not the other fish but i have seen the silver do a weird funny bottom fin thing and there fighting just started they use to be like best friends. when we had gotten the other two angels and tryed to put them in there with them the black would like guard the silver so we put the new ones in the 30 gallon. they started fighting probibly about a week ago...

they are in a 15 but if they get to big i will move them to my 30 gallon with some swords (i have two 30's and the other one has the other two angels in it)

i dont really know how old they are but someone on another wedsite told me probibly about 6-8 months (this is when we first got them)

sorry the pics are so big...

I have been using www.photobucket.com to post pictures...
seems they don't load as large.
It's free..upload from your PC files..and copy & paste
the IMG code into the post here on the forum.

Your Angels here..they look fairly YOUNG to me.
Maybe around 6 months at that.
IMO..not readyto be spawning yet..be patient.
What size is the tank?
If this is a small tank ( you have how many in there?)
..they most likely are fighting for territory.
Larger tank..more room for growth...
and less aggresssion.
Like I shared before...angels need 10 gallons
PER fish.
Nice Gold & drk. Marble BTW!!

they are in a 15 i think and its just the 2 angels, 3 mollys, a small pleco, and 1 neon. but i may move them to they 30 with some swords

It's not unusual for angelfish to fool around a long time, even months, before they spawn. By the look of the photos, their breeding tubes are not deployed yet. The silver appears to be a female because she looks somewhat gravid. If you do have a pair, they will need their own aquarium at 80 to 82 degrees, and with a wide leaf plant to spawn on. The plant can be a tall, plastic amazon sword. My favorite spawning tanks for angelfish are a 25 tall and a 37 tall. I've purchased several from aquarium shops, but I've found more at very good prices by shopping the yard sales here in Phoenix.

there in a hot tank now maybe if i take out the other 6 fish and put them in my 30 gallon they might stop fighting and put a small flat rock aganst the side wall

That could work. Good luck and many more aquariums to you.
Please let us know if we can help.

thanks! i will still take many more tips from people hint hint

Angels don't follow the inch per gallon rule. Adults require at least 10 gallons per fish to be healthy. If you want to breed them, if they are indeed a pair, then you would ideally want a bigger tank than a 15g, just for them, but removing their tankmates is a start for now.

In order to feel safe enough to breed, they will need to know they have enough room to do so, and a 15g tall doesn't leave a lot of room for their own territory.

Once you move the other fish, they will likely show you what they have planned if anything. Keep in mind, they still may be a bit young.

they arent fighting as much now and it seems to be like they have tubes i have had them since the day before mothers day and they have grown a lot before they were smaller then a quarter and with there top fins torn....i would move them to the sword tank (30 gallon) and put the swords in the 15 gallon but my moms areadly mad at me for moving the other fish out of the 15....

I have observed that the spawning is somewhat quicker if you start feeding the pair with high protein food such as brine shrimp, beef hearts, etc.

Years ago, I fed frozen beef heart, which I bought in a grocery store and shredded with a little hand cranked machine. The fish seemed to love it. Maybe I'll try the ready made stuff.

I like to feed live blackworms also, if you can find them!

There's also some freeze dried blackworms available from Mal...

Mal lives in Australia and is working on export problems, but he seems eager to do business in North America. I hear his freeze dried black worms are the bee's knees.

woah that pretty far away!!!(i live in ohio)

Mal is actually here in Canada right now on a family vacation. I think the delay in samples being received is due to that.

I did get mine before he left though, and the fish LOVE them.

Here's the link to his site:
http://www.blackworms.com.au/

the 2 angels got moved yesterday to the 29 gallon and they have 2 cloud minnows in there and a female betta and i proped a flatish stone up against the wall on a slant. i will get pics up tomorrow of the setup...i have some dried bloodworms if thats good

Sorry..but I would not have
the white clouds in with the Angels.
# 1. The W.C.'s prefer temps. MUCH cooler. The max. temp. for them would be around 75 degrees while the Angels NEED a consistent temp. of 80 - 82.
# 2. Once your Angels get a bit larger ( what size are they now?)..these minnows will most likely be lunch.
Also..not sure if we already discussed this on this forum?..but Betta's and Angels do not mix either...sorry.
Angelfish are cichlids...and aggressive at that. They will either nip the fins of this female betta..or vise=versa.
I would put the female betta in it's own little bowl/tank.
Honestly..Angelfish do BEST with "only" Angels. That has always been my experience. If I have anything in with them..it is small cory's.
Be careful with feeding too many bloodworms too..as they have a tendency to cause Internal Parasites.
Angels need a variety in their diet.
Sorry..just sharing the truth.
Wow..I am just a bearer of great news, huh? It is good to ask questions though..only way we learn.

Like Diane said, white clouds require much cooler temperatures than angelfish. They're a peaceful, very attractive fish for a community tank, and if you have at least a half dozen they will tend to shoal. I've had them spawn in a tank with nothing but white clouds, and they're not bad about eating their fry. A place called oddballfish.com has a long fin variety of white clouds. I may try to set up a tank for them this winter.

One last thing about angelfish: when they're young they can be a relatively peaceful community fish, although they do require warmer water than many other aquarium fish. As angelfish start to become sexually mature, they also become territorial and aggressive. That makes them terrible tank mates. I wish some fish vendors would stop advertising them as suitable for community tanks, because they're suitable for only a few months. In my opinion, their exotic looks and behavior more than make up for their temperament.

i will move the minnows soon but the betta seems fine but i wil probilly move her eventually too...they get along fine i have never seen them fight or nip at eachother and i watch them a lot and the minnows are okay too the tank temp is about 80 and they are about 2" from nose to tail so there younger still...heres the pics