Fish problem

Hey group,

I got a question for you all. I have a community tank and every so often, I see a fish get a peculiar symptom and I have no idea what it is. They will all of a sudden start looking a little ill and feed slower then usual, then their tails will become crooked and there colors will be come dull and sometimes their tails will almost look chewed. Mostly I notice on my Neon's and the other smaller fish. It doesn't happen often but maybe to 1 fish every 3 weeks or so. Ultimately, the fish will die but the process of death will sometimes take as much as 2 - 4 weeks.

I have medicated the fish with things rated for the most common diseases such as 'Ich' and 'Fin Rot' but it doesn't seem to have an effect and I hate to subject my fish to the medicines if not necessary. Maybe its just old age?? The fish are a little over a year old so I am unsure what the life expectancy is of small fish such as Neon's and Zebra's.

I thought about isolating the effected fish in a salt water solution to see what would happen then but not sure what route I would like to take as this point.

Any idea's or suggestions are appreciated!

TIA,

My guess is that you have a bacterial contagion bouncing around your tank. You might have some luck with gram-negative antibodies, but after that, try a treatment using gram-positive antibodies. Your fin-rot treatment was probably gram-negative, so your next round would be the positive (Maracyn?).

Remove the inflicted as quickly as you notice them, to slow the disease down. Good gravel vacuuming and regular water changes always helps.

I'm very interested in what Frank will recommend for this, and hopefully, it will not require a part-ownership in a drugstore ;~)

How often and at what % do you do water changes, gravel vacs, and filter maintenance(?) What type of filter and media(?) Do you pre-filter(?)

Then, so is the tank... I suspect a water quality issue. The symptoms are tipical to what's called Organic Pollution - an accumulation of DOC pollutants. NetMax pretty well peged the bacterial part (opportunistic bacteria), but I would first try treating the cause, not the

: >They : >will all of a sudden start looking a little ill and feed slower then usual, : >then their tails will become crooked and there colors will be come dull and : >sometimes their tails will almost look chewed. Mostly I notice on my Neon's : >and the other smaller fish. : > It doesn't happen often but maybe to 1 fish : >every 3 weeks or so. Ultimately, the fish will die but the process of : >death will sometimes take as much as 2 - 4 weeks. :

My water changes are about 30 % every month and I usually Vac the gravel about every 2 months, I have these smaller fish in a 55 Gal so it really doesn't get that dirty. The largest fish that I have are Golden Barbs and a large Pleco. My Nitrite levels are at 0 and Nitrate levels are at around 60 PPM with a PH at or around 6.4. I use an undergravel filter in which I have 3 inches of base gravel and it all cycles around 560 GPH and I have increased the surface agitation to try and help with reduceing Nitrates as well as decreasing there feedings. The tank *looks* very clean and clear, you can see very clearly one end to the other so there is no hazing in the tank what so ever. The only thing is that there is a slight bit of Algae but nothing to cause alarm. If your opinion has changed as to the possible cause, please post and let me know or let me know any other thoughts you might have...

TIA

Doug

: How often and at what % do you do water changes, gravel vacs, and filter : maintenance(?) What type of filter and media(?) Do you pre-filter(?) : : >The fish are a little over a year old..... : : Then, so is the tank... : I suspect a water quality issue. : The symptoms are tipical to what's called Organic Pollution - an accumulation : of DOC pollutants. NetMax pretty well peged the bacterial part (opportunistic : bacteria), but I would first try treating the cause, not the : symptoms......Frank

Clear water does not mean that the water is good. Look at it this way; the amount of food you put into the tank, is the amount of DOCs in the tank. It doesn't make a bit of difference if the food is eaten and turned to fish waste, or not - both become DOCs (organic pollution). A *weekly* 20% water change/gravel vac, leaves about 30 days of accumulated DOC pollutants in the tank, which is *not* acceptable - so you can see that a monthly 30% water change and bi-monthly gravel vac is falling way short. DOCs are also plant nutrients, but a fully planted tank with bright lighting and CO2 (for plant growth) still leaves accumulating DOCs. Seems that cleaning solid waste from pre-filters would do the trick, but enough DOCs are still pumped through the filter media, that a bio-wheel makes a big difference.

On the high side.....

To large of a water change will cause OTS (old tank syndrome).

Under gravel filters are bio-filters that remove ammonia and nitrites great, but trap solid waste within the gravel which decompose and be turned into DOCs. It will help a *lot* if you were to siphon the muck from under the filter plates once a week. You can do this by running a siphon hose down the UGF tubes and under the plates.

>If your opinion has changed as to the possible cause, please post

Not at all - I'm sure it as I suspected...... Frank

Frank, do you ever question your technical testing? Clear water is a factor. When I see haze from the end of my tank, I cut back on food for a day or two. Fish activity such as everyone going to the top, is another and so on.

As for muck on the bottom, my 75 has been set up for over 14 months and I don't syphon the bottom, no muck. If I saw standing dirt on the bottom I would syphon, but I just don't see any. I seem to have a natural balance that is working. I also have a 29 gallon set up for about 9 months. Same story. All my tanks are heavily populated.

Early on I tested, then I tested again with another brand. Results were not the same. Then I would question what was acceptable levels. I finally quit testing and stuck with observing my fish and plants and water, all of which I find rather natural. So far so good. I much rather watch my tank than the test tubes.