High level of amonia, wont drop

Well, maybe not that high...

Hi, It's me again and I'm still new...

Two of my fish died and I didn't know until I saw the rise in my amonia test (the dead fishes were in a cave). On the test, I get a 1.2 colour, which tell me to look in a chart for an other number corresponding to my PH. (7.0). so the end number is 0.01 or 0.02, which is low, but not 0. I did some water changes, (10% every day for 4 day and 20% last night) but the amonia level won't get back to 0 (or go down) (so I could add a bottom feeder...)

Should I do 2 or 3 massive waterchange (50%)? Should I install a second sponge in my filter? Should I reduce feeding further (already cut back on this from 9 minutes a day (3 feeding) to 4 minutes a day (2 feeding))

I have a 25G tanks with a fishload of 8or9' (with 14 fishes-1snail now)

no spike in nitrite or nitrate yet, waiting for those to append...

how long has the tank been set up? And what kind of filter?

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I have a PowerClear200 filter with 1 sponge and 1 charcoal (I just ADDED second sponge 5 minutes ago, hoping it would help develop more amonia-eating bacteria

I've been slowly adding fishes since mid december (or a little before that). My initial cycle was done with 3 rasbora and some mini cycle were (sometimes) appening when adding fishes. I have 1 plant in that tank...

With 10% water change everyday, (some day two 10% water change, and a couple of 20% waterchange), the amonia is still not droping back to 0 (in fact, It's not moving from the 1.2 color, PH stable at 7.0-7.2 interval) (Is something producing amonia faster than I change my water?)

Have you checked the ammonia level of your change water? Sometimes town supply water has quite high ammonia levels.

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Yes, I've checked and It doesn't contain any Ammonia... Tonight, it's the first time I'm under 1.2 .... So I might have been experiencing a cycle/overfeeding effect. (it has not been long enought for the 2nd sponges to have any effect and the change in the feeding habit was only less than week ago...)

I will keep changing some water daily until I'm a 0 then I will get back to my regular schedule of 1 time a week..

how often do we need to change charcoal by the way?

About every 4 weeks is a good cycle for carbon in my experience.

I take it out and don't use it in my tanks. There is no general need for it IMO. I fear it will do it's job too well and take nutrients out of the water, that the plants need.

My tank has had a couple of mini-spikes this week because I changed filter materials in one of the filters, and half in the other, which left the pair of sponges in the larger filter to take the bio-load - I think I may be suffering the consiquences of this action as I write this.

Most things are okay in the tank. No-one is hanging low or high. No-one has rapid gill movement, or inflamation, clamped fins or unusual behavior, but I have a suspect Male Honey Gourami and a Mystery Snail which are both in the Q tank because they look like they may die to me.

I would have thought the Black Neons would have first shown any stressful change in water paramaters, bull all 18 Tetra are doing just fine right now.

I think if I am learning anything atm, it's that small changes and patience over a few days is a better way

It appears your tank is not cycled. As has been pointed out, the ammonia is too high, the nitrifying bacteria need to get established. If you have high ammonia, and no nitrites, or nitrates, then something is wrong, ie no cycle, or something is killing off the bacteria. When you change your water, do you put in anything to remove chlorine? Do you use charcoal in your filters? I assume it is a community tank, what type of fish are they? Some like neons have a very low threshold for ammonia. How long has the tank been established? Do you remove the un eaten food after you feed your fish?

a couple of observations;

your water changes need to be adjusted. Change at least 30% at a time. better yet 40%. 10% at a time isn't enough to affect anything, that is why your tests are similar before and after..

Also you have a pretty heavy fish load for that tank and filter combination. So ammonia is going to build up fast and you are going to get spikes when adding new fish. It's going to take a while before that tank is good and established. I am not familiar with that filter. Is it hagen? like the aquaclear 200? Does it have a floss or foam filter to trap the dirt before it gets to the sponges? If you have to wash out the sponges that will kill the bacteria. You will want to rinse them out in some clean tank water once in a while though.

btw, what are the dimensions on the tank?

personally I think a better filter is called for. But I don't know if you want to spend the $$$ or even have the room for a nice canister filter or even something with a bio wheel.

It is possible you are changeing water too much, and not letting the nitrifying bacteria a chance to build up. Once they have been established, the ammonia will drop, and the nitrite will begin to rise, as the second ntirfying bacteria that feed on nitrites begin to grow, your nitrates will rise. From your posts, it sounds too me like you don't have any nitrites yet. Have you tested for them?

I totaly agree with fuzzy.......but still think you have too many fish in your 25g.

good luck...keep us posted.... jay..

I'll answer all your post in this one...

Let's start with the number of fish thing...

Ok, I'm a little bit confused here... Somebody that seem to have a great background told me that I had plenty of room...

here is part of what he wrote

from NetMax : [...] Could you explain how come you (all) think I have to many fish and at the same time you (all again) think there is room left... (if you don't , I'll go back to the 1' of fish per galon theory and it will be all your fault )

On the acount of my filter, It's an aquaclear, not a powerclear (I don't know were that come from..., maybe to much powerhead-caniser-ugf reading)

On the account of the quantity of food, I decreased it a bit again, but i'll have to get some sinking food... My neon which are smaller that the rest hardly get any food... They seem afraid to fight for the food and wait for some to sink... as there is less food, less is sinking and they dont get any...

I've checked the amonia level in the water used for water change and it's 0 (good...)

My Amonia level are down now (almost clear in the test tube not event between 0 and 0.6 now) ... It might have been a cycle as houskeeping people disconnected the filter for 3 hours the day before the spike... (yes, now everithing is taped and label DO NOT TOUCH or CLEAN) It went down slowly (as my original spike, but the spike was much higher as I had more fish... Might be the reason for the death of the two neon.)

I got some information on canister filter, and It kind of powerfull (and expensive) for a 25g tank... Maybe on my next aquarium...

Anyway I apreciate your help and comment It's been a great help (except on the number of fish thing )

Martin!

P.S. please, come back on the subjet of the number of fish...

It's quite possible that you're changing filter media too often. The bacteria that convert ammonia to something less harmful don't have a chance to grow. With all that powerful filtering and water changing, the nitrogen cycle can't get going. I don't advocate keeping a smelly aquarium like in the 50s, but I also don't see the necessity of keeping the water so clean that you can use it for making iced tea. After all, have you ever seen a river, lake, stream or natural pond that didn't have a muddy bottom?