5 years ago #1
Guest
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I have an extremely aggressive Koi Angelfish about 5 months old terrorizing the other three Angels in my 75 gallon planted tank. I would like to get him a new home but fear his new home may not be as nice as what he is used to, so I am worried about finding him another home. Do you think an Angelfish would care about a lesser quality or smaller new home, or losing his tank mates? Do you think I am exhibiting a classic example of anthropomorphism worrying about this fish's well being should I have to part with him?

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5 years ago #2
dkpate
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JohnArhtur will be on in the morning, and he is very experienced with Angelfish, so he will be of WAYYY more help than I would ever be!

I wish you luck though!

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5 years ago #3
johnarthur
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Thanks for visiting.

Anthropomorphism is difficult for our species to avoid, especially when the behaviors of creatures like angelfish are so similar to our own. If you had the angelfish for five months, chances are he's a couple months older and has reached puberty, which makes him act like a school yard bully. If he's just chasing the other fish, make sure they have plenty of hiding places or move him like you suggested. If he confronts another angelfish and they are mostly twitching and lip locking, it is, of course, a mating ritual, which sometimes gets pretty violent. A spawning pair needs their own aquarium; the 25 gallon tall works well.

It usually takes an angelfish about a year before their hormones take over, so maybe the other angelfish have not yet matured. Females can also be aggressive, but mostly that happens when they have eggs. The aggressive Koi may settle down once he establishes his territory, which will be close to half the tank. If you have only males, the aggressive one could kill all the others. If you want to read more about gender determination in angelfish, use our search function at the top of the page.

Angelfish, buy the way, will drive you crazy and will have you buying more aquariums. I love 'em.

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5 years ago #4
amillionlights
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Hi there again,

My fish were all obtained from the same breeder in Oct. 09. The fish had dime to penny sized bodies.

Oh and to top it off, I was given this fish. I hadn't asked for it or bought it. When I had purchased three other Angelfish from the breeder, he threw in two extra Kio Angels at no charge.

(One of those Koi sadly died three months ago, when I moved him to another aquarium, because of the bully. I am not sure what happened, but both fish that were moved to that aquarium died). It has since been torn down and totally done with new substrate and plants.

Now, one Angel has laid eggs and she is accompanied by another smaller Angel, they began pairing off two months ago.

The larger of the two who paired off, laid eggs while I was at work (apparent by her extended omnipositor tube). I do not know if other paired Angel fertilized the eggs or not, for I once read that if no male is around a female will act like a male in some breeding situations.

The third of the Angels is passive and bothers no one; staying out of the way.

The large Koi Angel chases everyone, including the Cardinal Tetras and Cory cats; but mostly the egg laying female, who has the most shredded/damaged fins.

I really couldn't afford one more fish aquarium and no pet shops in town suited me, so I put this fish on Aqua bid to no avail. When I asked people I knew, if they wanted him, no one did; although I did get many responses like, "No but I'll take him on a cracker�..... You get the idea.

I also put him on Craigslist, with one person inquiring, but that person never wrote back after I asked him some questions about his knowledge of Angelfish.

So back to the original problem, if I put this fish by himself/herself will he/she be lonely?

Sorry about the lengthy post, but no one else would understand this dilemma and it really is a problem to me.

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5 years ago #5
johnarthur
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It probably will not bother the angelfish to put him alone for a while. In fact, that's one treatment for a bully. Change a little bit of decor in the original aquarium, then return him after a couple of weeks or more. By that time, other angelfish will have established territories, and the bully will be somewhat disoriented. It also works on pairs where one fish becomes too aggressive with his mate. When introducing any fish to a new aquarium, you may want to use the drip acclimation method to reduce shock.

If the eggs are infertile, they will grow a white fungus in a couple of days. If even one starts to wiggle, they're fertile. Angelfish eggs are very delicate, so any number of things can kill them.

Angelfish are very effective predators, and they have been known to have neon and cardinal tetras for lunch. If you can't sell the angelfish and still don't want to isolate him, aquarium shops will sometimes take them. Do you live anywhere near Phoenix, and do you have a shipping box? I may be interested if he's a really nice angelfish and if shipping is cheap.

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5 years ago #6
Amillionlights
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Let me show you his pictures. He is pretty I think. How do I post a pic.

P.S. I live in Florida

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5 years ago #7
Amillionlights
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Your answers are very informative, thank you. I posted some pictures of the mean Koi under "photo albums, general".

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5 years ago #8
johnarthur
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From the pictures, it does look like a male angelfish. He has some nice fins and colors.

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5 years ago #9
angela_brown
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He's a very nice looking fish!

If you can't really set up another aquarium... In the past, when I had aggresion issues... I used a large bucket... and an airstone, perhaps a small heater (depending on the length of the stay) I would use water out of the original tank, (during a water change is a great time to do this) and fill the bucket. Put the problem fish in the bucket for a couple of hours, as JohnArthur said, moving the decor around some... and then reintroduce him.

I understand getting attached to them. This is worth a try, sometimes it works... other times... it doesn't.

Good Luck in your dilema with your fish...

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5 years ago #10
Amillionlights
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Hi again.\

I love this Aquarium Club and am happy to be a member. Hopefully one day I too will be able to help someone with advice. Thank you everyone for all your advice.

The latest on this mean Koi. I have him on Ebay and on Craigslist, I really don't want him. I did isolate him to 30 gallon aquarium and had problems with the mated pair in 75 gallon. They began attacking the passive Angel horribly; would not relent.

I then moved passive Angel to 30 and put Koi back into 75 with mated pair. This is the presnt ideal solution. The passive Angel seems to be fine in the isolated 30 gallon and the mated pair and Koi are not as aggressive to each other as they were when the passive Angel was present, even though they still fight it seems the mated pair hold their own fairly well.

Putting the Koi into isolation did work at first, but I did not rearrage aquarium decor, but may have to eventually. When he was put back into 75 gallon, the Koi did seem disoriented at first, but soon he was back to old behavior; which leads me to believe if I had rearranged things it may have worked. But for now the terror he reigns is not as bad as it was with passive Angel in the aquarium. Strange. I cannot figure out what sexes I have here but the problem is not quite as upsetting as it was.

Anyway live in south Florida who would like a Koi? You can have him.

I will post profile soon too. Thanks again everyone.

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2 years ago #11
AZH
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hey guys i want to buy a angle fish so can u guys tel me what are some of the things that i'm gonna need ?? some of the thing as in equipment ....

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2 years ago #12
johnarthur
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Angelfish need quite a bit of room and are very sensitive to water parameters. Please click this link for more specifics:
http://www.myaquariumclub.com/fish-profile-freshwater- angelfish-1551.html

Please feel free to post more questions.

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2 years ago #13
sotiris
Guest

Hello,
sorry if my post is on wrong place, it's my first time posting here and sorry in advance for my English .
My problem is similar to this one. I ve got a 30 gallon planted aquarium with 2 angelfish which recently became 3 (they brought me another one as a present ). The new one had a problem from the pet shop, it came here with almost no fins. I put it alone for a period of time and now it is OK. When I put it with the other ones, one of the big ones (which was kind of agressive) became really agressive and didn' t stop attacking the other two. Now I put the big one on it's own and the situation is good now. the other big gets on well with the new one. What should I do from now on?

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2 years ago #14
dirtyrottenbaby
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Koi Angels are my very favorite...but as a very much beginner from reading have learned to stay away...I admire them at my local LFS...funny though I got a betta girls of 5...! LOL...good luck to you..! Love this club too..!

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2 years ago #15
kthorkel
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I'm patiently awaiting John's advice on this one. I have angels myself but so far mine are graceful and peaceful. I'm prepared for puberty to strike them though. I understand they can get very aggressive then. Do you know the sex of the big "bully"?

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2 years ago #16
sotiris
Guest

Thank you for your replies,
kthorkel: The big bully must be a male, but I am not sure of it. I guess it must be a male because of it's size and it's behavior.

dirtyrottenbaby: Thank you, I really love angels. good luck to you too

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2 years ago #17
kthorkel
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sotiris wrote:
Thank you for your replies,
kthorkel: The big bully must be a male, but I am not sure of it. I guess it must be a male because of it's size and it's behavior.

dirtyrottenbaby: Thank you, I really love angels. good luck to you too :)


I was thinking female because of behavior.. lol. I know there is a post on here from John that discusses sexing the fish. I'll see if I can find it and get the link to you.

ETA: Here it is.
http://www.myaquariumclub.com/gender-determination-in- juvenile-freshwater-angelfish-93.html
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2 years ago #18
sotiris
Guest

Wow, thanks,
I forgot to mention that the two big ones were recently in this tank with other two gouramis and their behavior were just fine. (they told me in pet shop that they will be ok), but the gouramis died about 3 months ago leaving the two angels on their own in the tank...

Ok, now that i am wathcing this article it has more characteristics of a female angelfish

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2 years ago #19
kthorkel
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It is possible you had a mating pair. Being first in the tank, they would've set up their own territory. You may want to rehouse the new Angel and keep Koi together.

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2 years ago #20
sotiris
Guest

maybe, but even without the new one, the big one attacks the other and the other is always hiding behind the plants, now without the big one the other one and the new one are really fine. (those angelfish can drive me crazy, lol)

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2 years ago #21
kthorkel
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Yeah, they should be called Lil Devil Fish. lol

It seems like you made the best call then. IMo if they are all happy, that's what matters

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2 years ago #22
sotiris
Guest

haha, Lil Devil Fish
thanks for all your help.

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2 years ago #23
Georgeanna
Guest

Hi, I originally posted the young, male Koi problem, and now years later, probably going on 3 or 4 years, I have discovered he is a male.

I put him in a 65 high with a known, large, black and blue colored, female Angelfish and all is fine. They get along, do not fight, but also do not seem to breed. The black colored female does lay eggs, but my male Koi only wants to eat them.

But at least I found out my problem. He is so aggressive (my Koi) he can only be housed with a female Angelfish.

Thanks for all the help. Now I keep my mated pairs to themselves in their own homes with catfish (Cordydoras) only.

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2 years ago #24
kthorkel
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Georgeanna, thanks for the update!

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2 years ago #25
Amillionlights
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I have a story to tell of aggressive Angelfish. This happened many years ago, and was so sad to me.

I was quite the newbie to Angelfish breeding at this time and had an 80 gallon aquarium with hanging lights and no tops. In this aquarium I ended up with a mated pair of Angelfish (a black & white marble, female, Veil Tail and a handsome, strong, stocky, shorter finned,black male Angelfish) and I loved them so much!

The first time I attempted to raise their eggs I ended up with about 150 baby Angelfish that survived and went to new homes. I did not cull, and will not, ever.

One of their offspring had fins I did not like (too long and drooping over) so I kept him with his parents rather than selling him as I did not want to pass on his bad genetics.

When the fin-deformed,baby Angelfish grew up he started to fight his father for mating rights to his own mother (silly me, did not realize they would do this).

One day I came home from work and my prized, black, male Angelfish was on the floor,dead and dried up. He fought so hard with his own son he accidently flipped out of the aquarium, committing fish suicide.
So in conclusion, are Angelfish aggressive....I say that is a big yes.

Sorry about the length of post, hope I did lose you in boredom

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