Sick Discus .

Hello all, Hopefully some one out there will be able to help.I keep a mature 180Litre Discus tank at a ph of 7 or less currently with a raised temperature of 31oC.it has a Fluval 304 external(with Peat Granules)and an internal Juwel filter running with a spray bar. They get fed a good diet of Beefheart mix,Live Bloodworm,Live Earthworm and Tetra Prima.They feed from my hand happily.I water change at least 25% every week. About 3 weeks ago I introduced a Plec for cleaning which developed some form of Internal disease got Pop eye and died.I know I should of used my hospital tank but time did not allow due to me having to leave home to work. Anyway the discus then started to form white/Opaque areas on their skin. Gradually getting worse and all the discus had it after a week or so.They were wormed a week previous.I tried them on advice by my petshop on Interpet No8 Fungus treatment but 3 days in no change.I gave them a big water change and started them on Interpet NO7 Antislime treatment.After a week all but 2 have cleared up so I have started another course after a large waterchange.1fish about 4inches is not colouring up but staying very dark.He/she comes out to feed but stays on his/her own in the corner.As far as i can tell he is not getting bullied. All the rest are coloured up and eager for food.Any ideas on what they had and do you think the last one will pull through and has the problem gone away? Could he be suffering from Internal problems? I have Myaxzin,Protizin,Interpet no9 internal bacteria,no7 Fungus and whitespot treatments at hand? Any Ideas?? Thanks in Advance

I buy Maracyn, Maracyn-Two by the 100 tab bottle. I have a persistent problem with white patches on my cichlids! It appears to be some type of bacterial infection called 'body fungus.' Please note that this is not a fungus infection, but a bacterial infection. Probably Maracyn would do the job, but overkill doesn't hurt! .

Thanks Sokar I'll give Maracyn a go.

Sokar - White patching - greasy looking shiny white patches (?) Sounds like a bacterial viruses called Lymphocystis. Try putting a tablespoon of salt per 5 gal. - should make it disappear within a weel! ............... Frank

The shiny white/buff patches is quite common with larger cichlids. It is a bacterial viruses and by adding a little salt, makes it disappear in a week........ Frank

bacterial virus???

Lymphocystus is a virus and is generally harmles. Lymph looks nothing like Foghorn described.

I would personally maintain the same No7 treatment and water change routine and give the fish a bit more time to pull through.

Thanks Frank

Elaine T wrote;

Foghorn said, 'white/opaque' - 'Interpet #8 fungus treatment did nothing' - 'Interpet #7 anti-slime treatment, after a week, all but two cleared up'.... Interpet #8 Fungus Treatment works good, on fungi, so it wasn't a fungus! Interpet #7 Anti-Slime Treatment seems to be helping (after a week)...

Sokar replyed to Foghorn's post saying, 'persistent problem with white patches on cichlids' - 'appears to be some type of bacterial infection'.... Seems that Sokar seen it as a bacterial infection, the same as I......

Elaine T also wrote; >' maintain the same No7 treatment and water change routine.....'

It sounded to me like Lymphocystis, but I still replyed with, 'White patching - greasy looking shiny white patches', so he could eather agree, or disagree. I then added, 'try a tablespoon of salt per 5 gals.' as salt in the water helps stimulate the fishs slime coat, as does the No7 treatment *you* said to maintain. The difference between the No7 treatment and salt, salt is a lot cheaper and does the same thing a lot quicker. Fishs slime coat contains its own anti-body. Your telling him to treat with a medication - viral infections are virtually

Freshwater lymphocystus is a virus and generally starts with white bumps that look a lot like ich. As it progresses, lumps or threadlike growths form. I've seen it a lot, particularly on dye injected glassfish.

However, I suggested that Foghorn maintain what he was doing simply because IT WAS WORKING! A bit more patience and those last two fish will probably be fine.

And unless you have a sample of that fish's slime coat and a microscope, how do you plan to make a better diagnosis or suggestion than something that is already working? I'd actually lay money on finding hexamita under that microscope rather than a bacterium or virus.

BTW do you realize what a ridiculous phrase 'bacterial viruses' is? You've used it in two separate posts and also spelled antibody wrong. Now go earn a masters degree in biology, read a half-dozen fish disease books, and work in a fish store for two years under an expert aquarist before you flame me again.

Elaine T wrote; progresses, lumps or >threadlike growths form.'

Hmmm - along with a red anal vent, if that is what I saw upon an examination, I would have improved the water quality and treated for Columnaris, because that is what the fish would be suffering from, not hexamita. With Hexamita, white threads would be trailing from the pitting lateral line, inwhich depigmention would also be taking place. The fish then becomes extremely thin with yellowing waste, due to the intestinal parasites - you don't need a microscope to see the symptoms of eather disease.

It may be a ridiculous phrase to you, but last time I looked, Lymphocystis still fell under *bacteria viruses*.

Not that I never mispell anything, do it all the time - comes from droping out of school when I was 16. Does that make me unable to accurately diagnosis a fish disease?

Again - Interpet #7 Anti-Slime Treatment does the *same* thing as salt, but takes _longer_.

Little late for that now, besides, I have to finish high school first!

Do you mean 'reread' ? I donated all (a lot more than 6) of my fish books to Missouri/Illinois Aquarium Society years ago.

I am an 'expert aquarist', breeder with 104 tanks for years and years ago, owned half of a few pet shops. No, not little mom and pops places - our first store had over 200 fish tanks, the largest being a 3000 gal. tank with a waterfall off one end and a pond at the other.

'flame' - that was just a disagreement...........Frank

ROTFLMAO! I've never been so neatly shot down and laughed so hard about it! Thank you for not taking me as seriously as I sometimes take myself.

Now, I'd love to trade some knowledge. For the biology end, lymphocystis is a plain old virus. Honestly, there is no such thing as a 'bacterial virus' unless you mean a bacteriophage, which is a virus that infects bacteria. You must have a bogus book or article somewhere. Viruses aren't even quite alive - they're only a bit genetic material and a protein coat that reproduces inside cells. That's why you can't really kill them, although you can destroy them with disinfectants. Koi herpes virus, fish pox, and lymphocystis are viruses. Bacteria are larger, alive, and can reproduce on their own. Pseudomonas, Aeromonas, Columnaris, etc. are bacteria.

I'm curious about the discus and would like to learn more. When I see white patches on a fish, especially discus, I generally assume there is an increase in slimecoat due to some sort of irritation. What made you think of lymphocystis in particular? Also, can lymphocystis come and go like flu if it's mild? Is that what likely happened to the discus? I've seen nodules and so forth from lymph but I've never seen anything larger than an ich-sized spot from it go away.

Thanks in advance, if you have time to teach me a bit.