Sick discus - need advice

My little discus who has been starving himself is not faring much better in quarantine in soft blackwater at 90F. His color has improved, but that's about all. Overall, I've seen discus look worse...his fins, eyes, and slimecoat are in excellent shape. He's dark but not black, and spends a lot of time hovering tipped slightly downward. Fins are fully extended with no tendency to clamp them.

Disease symptoms are refusal to eat for a couple of weeks, some hole-in-the-head that has not spread to the lateral line, white, mucoid feces, and somewhat hard gilling with pale gills. By Untergasser's charts, the gill troubles are most likely anemia from malnourishment since I cannot see any damage. There is no anal inflammation or signs of Capillaria or tapeworms.

From all this, I'm guessing an intestinal parasitic infection possibly from some suspect frozen glassworms or live blackworms. (I never could get this fish to accept prepared foods and the only thing he'd eat when I first got him were blackworms.) I have no microscope so I cannot guess whether the trouble is hexamita, flukes, or worms. He's not eating, so medicated food is not an option. My thinking is to try metronidazole if I can find some, Clout if not, and Fluke tabs if treatment for hexamita dosn't work. Does this make sense or should I try the Fluke tabs or Clout first? Clout says it will likely affect nitrification and I'm a bit concerned about losing the cycle. My Q-tank is small and I'll have to stress the fish (and myself since I have to lug RO water from the store) with even bigger water changes than I'm already doing.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I'm so sorry to hear this news about Flower As you know I have no experience of Discus or this sort of illness but the only thing that is ringing bells in my head are the dragonfly lavae having lurked on rec.ponds and read what they can do to Koi....

Sorry again

Although I am not a true expert, I would say your analysis is cogent and the course you state is the best you can do.

Thanks, Alpha. Your double-check is valuable. I'm going in search of

Thanks, Gill. This isn't the dragonfly larvae tank, but I'm still suspicious of what else might have been in that batch of food. Ah well... Keep your fingers crossed for Flower.

Metronidazole 250mg - you might have a better chance finding it at a pet store as 'Hex-a-mit'. Treatment for parasite protozoans, hexamita, discus and angel disease, hole-in-the-head, and velvet. One cap per 10 gal. every other day for 5 days - repeat full treatment if necessary in three days. *Be sure to avoid oxygen depletion*. Works better as a medicated frozen food - mix one cap or 1/4 tsp. per 4 oz of food. Feed once a day for 10 days (once you get it eating again)... Sometimes when a discus turns dark and floats head down or lay flat on the bottom, their air bladder is affected. A temperature spike can be the cause. Same sysptoms, could be an infection of the opening of their swim bladder, in which case you would want to lower the temp. and treat with Quinine Sulfate... Feeding live blackworms - it's probably affected with intestinal flagellates or worms. Sysptoms are as above, plus the ridge of the dorsum starts to show a sharp edge (thinning of the upper body) and its eyes can also sink in - can be treated with Paracide-X, or Fluke-Tabs. Treating with eather of those you not only have to avoid oxygen drpletion, but also have to watch for drug affects such as uncoordinated swimming and mouth muscle movements, and/or head standing - happens with to high of dose............. Frank

Thanks, Frank. I've gone to the two biggest specialist fish stores in town and can't find metronidazole. Both stores carried the Aquatronics line and now that Aquatronics is out of business are at a complete loss as to where to find medications like Hex-a-mit. As for medicated food, the fish isn't eating so I'm stuck with water.

I've started with Clout since it's supposed to also work on Hexamita and then I'll give him a few days and treat once with Fluke tabs. I'm managing both oxygen and ammonia and things seem OK so far.

Try these guys - if you're like me lfs don't stock what you need until after you've gotten it anyway!
http://jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/WATER_TREATMENTS_ETC_/ Medications/medicat...

I order 99% from the web - a lot cheaper to pay the shipping charges than to buy locally.

Tim

That's a great resource. Thanks so much!

Have you looked on eBay - see if you can buy some that will express ship it to you. Other than that, I have no useful advice.

Elaine,

Bring your PH down to 5.4 to 5.8 (slowly over days not hours).Just remember fish take acid water better then neutral or higher, so when it is time to bring the water back to around 6.5- DO IT VERY SLOWLY. Straight RO water does not have enough hardness (especialy for young Discus) mix the RO water with tap water or add Discus Trace to the water. Change water twice a week (same PH,Temp,etc.). Remove carbon from the filter. Try feeding frozen blood worms (remove any leftovers). Place the worms in a cup and thaw with tap water.

I hope this helps, Art

PS bacteria can not live much below 5.0 PH. DO THIS SLOWLY If you see any problems with the fish Stop

Arkhew wrote:

Elaine,

Bring your PH down to 5.4 to 5.8 (slowly over days not hours).

Easier said then done.
You need to increase the CO2 level so that the pH will go down gradually.

I'm also no sure how the discusses will pass it, as I never tried it myself.

Strange this threads goes up again.
Anyway, pure RO water is really not a good thing in an aquarium. You'd never find something like it on nature.
There was a time I didn't add tap water, and use pure RO water, and my plants started starving...
I doubt discusses would survive it.

BTW - have you seen the new discusses on our photo widget?
Amazing, isn't it?

I read somewhere that when you use RO water, you have to replace some of the minerals removed by the reverse osmosis process. Otherwise, the pH will be all over the place.

I used pure RO water, and eventually all the minerals on the water were only those made of the fish waste.
In such a case the water is so soft, that the plants and fish do not have enough minerals to build themselves.

pH also goes to very low levels, as I injected CO2 which becomes very acid on soft water...

Bottom line - I would mix tap water with RO.

I read somewhere that when you use RO water, you have to replace some of the minerals removed by the reverse osmosis process. Otherwise, the pH will be all over the place.

Ho - you mean by adding fertilizers?
That could be a good idea if you add enough of them.
I guess I didn't... :-|
Anyway, today I'm adding tap water (25%) and things improved radically.

Check out the August issue of Aquarium Fish International. It has a small article concerning RO water and a longer article about keeping Discus.