SW/Damsel questions

I recently set up a salt water fish tank. I seeded the tank with bacteria from another tank, added Stress Coat and Stress Zyme, waited 24 hours, then on Wednesday I put in 5 small (1.25-1.5 inch) damsels (3 yellow tails and 2 black velvet neons) Today one of the black velvet neon damsels is acting stressed. I think it may be dying. It is laying around at the very bottom of the tank against the glass. It may be too late for him, but I need to know what I can do so the other damsels don't have the same problem. I have fed them three times since I brought them home. Once they got frozen baby brine shrimp, and twice they got flakes. (I spilled too much flake food into the tank last night so they were definitely overfed) I usually just give them very small a pinch.

20 gallon tank heater bubble wand Penguin 125 Biowheel filter

ammonmia .25 nitrite .25 nitrate 25 high range, 5 low range PH 8.2 ALkalinity high Specific gravity 1.022 salinity 30 temperature 76

I am trying to learn about saltwater tanks now, because we will be moving in Aug. and I plan to switch my 75 gallon tank over from freshwater to saltwater when I start over. I want to learn now so I won't kill any expensive fish later. What other equipment do I really need to have on this 20 gallon tank? What will I need for the 75 gallon tank? thanks

You did not mention the size of tank but I am guessing small ( < 30G) IMO your seed hacteria is not working. You can solve this a couple of ways

1) You put in too many fish for the size of tank likely

2) start doing serious water changes (50-75%) (The solution to polution is dilution)

3) Go to Petsmart or LFS and get Cycle by Hagen or similar product.

I cannot stress you need to act immediately. Next slow down and start educating yourself.

First, Start doing serious wat First, I would say your seed b

Y should have mentioned. Probably you should do some basic tests for ammonia and Nitrite and verify myh first post is correct.

ammonia and Nitrite and verify myh first post is correct.

He did, and listed the results in his post. Other than his temp being rather low, I didn't see anything awfuly bad, though I'm not sure what unit of measure his test kits use. I was going to recommend he begin doing some water changes and raise his temp to 80 or so, but I'd hoped someone would come up with something better.

Well...I'm a 'she' actually. Anyway, I did bump up my temp a bit right after I made my origonal post. I am going to do a water change right now too. Thanks

Karen,

Your Ammonia and Nitrites should be zero. Do an immediate water change . Use the product I mentioned to help cycle your tank or what would be best is to get the fish to another tank that is cycled.

Thanks John I just did a wter change. I'm going to call Petco right now to see if they are still open. If they are I'll go get some Cycle. I'm guessing that's live bacteria?

Your Ammonia and Nitrites should be zero. Do an immediate water change .

No, they should not. During the cycle, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate will all register in varying amounts, dependant on the stage. Also, I have never used the packaged 'cycling' products, as the vast majority of them are snake-oil, and traditional cycling, as well as fishless cycling, work perfectly well. I have had traditional cycles go so smoothly that no water changes were needed during the cycle at all. Patience and a low bio-load. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrogencycle/a/ aa073199.htm

Karen, what test kit are you using, and what is the unit of measure?

The test kits I have are as follows:

Ammonia: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals - reads 0 to 8 ppm

nitrite: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals - reads 0 to 5 ppm

nitrate: Red Sea - reads 0 to 50 ppm

ph and alkalinity are in the same box - Red Sea - ph reads 7.4 to 8.6 - alkalinity reads low to high

I'm guessing I need a new alkalinity test kit as mine doesn't give any actual numerical reading, just low to high.

I'm guessing I need a new alkalinity test kit as mine doesn't give any actual numerical reading, just low to high. Karen

Sounds like you're on track. Small water changes should be fine, and yes, the AP alk test is near to worthless IMO. As far as the stressed damsel, I've seen nothing in your posts to allow me to point and say 'That's what's causing it.' He might have been a 'marked fish' so to speak, something may have been wrong with him before you got him home. I also have seen a couple sources that say the black velvet damsels aren't as hardy as some of the others, say the blues and

I

No, really, they should be zero. Meaning the cycle isn't complete until they are zero. If you have fish in a tank that is still cycling, they will suffer from the normal spiking of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Karen, because you're using this 20g as a sort of 'sandbox' to learn the in's and out's of saltwater, might I make some suggestions to help when you decide to dive in with your 75g?

Take your time. Don't cycle with fish - you will have some or all of them die. Ammonia is toxic to fish - ill effects should be expected.

I think the best recipe for a stable and healthy saltwater tanks goes as follows (with variations based on preferences/philosophies):

Get as big a tank as you feel you can manage. 75G+ is good. 20g is fickle. Use RO/DI water right from the start with a good salt mix (nearly all are good). Add about 1-2 lbs of low density live rock (branches and shelves vs. boulders) (cured rock = faster cycle, uncured = slower cycle). Add a 4+inch sand bed of good coral sand with grains ranging from 1mm to 3mm*. Hook up a good protein skimmer (most on the market will do the job, but do your research). Make sure there's a good amount flow in the tank (opinions conflict - my rule of thumb is that 5x Tank Volume per hour is enough, and you can never have too much) Keep salinity and temperature steady (75-80). Check ammonia every day. It will rise slowly, spike, then fall away quickly. When it's 0, start checking Nitrites everyday and expect a spike as well. When Nitrite is 0, it's safe to start slowly adding fish. Waiting until Nitrates are zero won't hurt, but even thriving reef tanks can sometimes show Nitrate.

* This is definitely controversial - I've always had good results with this however.

Expect the cycle to take from a week up to a month or more. Expect crazy algae blooms to come and go. Eventually the tank will balance out.

Is this better than doing it the quick way by giving the bacteria something to munch on? Can't say, but it's certainly less expensive, and gives you time to really think about the processes going on in the tank. If I've only learned one thing in this hobby, it's that going slow is about the smartest thing anyone can do. Michael Buffington