UGF help

Howdy,

I just setup an Aqua Culture 10 gallon starter aquarium kit. (24 more hours and I get to add fish!!) It came with a 5-15 power filter but I bought a Top Fin under gravel filter too. The UGF came with two airlines and air stones, so I know it's designed to work with either a power head or air pump, but the instruction don't mention anything. Does it need one of those or will enough water circulate thru the UGF all by itself? What are the advantages of an air pump or power head? Is one better than the other? If I go power head do I need one for each uplift tube or will one be sufficient for a 10 gallon tank?

Thanks for any help.

Maybe one or two tiny and hardy fish. It will take at least two weeks before the aquarium is cycled such that it can decompose the fish and food wastes safely. If you can hold off a bit on the fish you will get to the end result faster with 'fishless cycling'. A search of this newsgroup or web will provide the details.

Even a small powerhead on one lift tube would be sufficient. You may end up with more water circulation than the fish like. You would plug the other tube so the intake is through the gravel. Airstones will not pump as much water as a small powerhead and they make a lot of noise. Also a lot of noise from the air pump. It is an economical solution for a fish store with many tanks and one blower, but not your best option.

UGF is not as popular as it once was. Reverse UGF (RUGF) addresses some of the objections. You might wish to find out more about it as an option. The hot setup for RUGF is to have a sponge filter on the inlet of a powerhead. The powerhead discharges this prefiltered water into the UGF plate. The upward current through the gravel reduces the problem of debris settling deep into the gravel. But neither is ideal if you are grow real plants.

For simplicity, why not just use your power filter and eliminate the UGF ? If you observe the usual recommendations for stocking, gravel vacuuming and water changes, you will be successful with the 10G aqaurium. If you do not, the UGF will not help.

I disagree, here is why: There are three forms of pollution an aquarium filter should remove; #1 - dissolved compounds(ammonia/nitrites) #2 - inorganic pollutants (phosphate/DOCs) #3 - solid wastes (uneaten foods/fish waste). Undergravel filters, like *any* other filter, does a good job on removing #1 (ammonia/nitrites), but doesn't do a thing for #s 2 & 3. As a matter of fact, undergravel filters pull the solid waste (#3) into the gravel where it slowly decomposes, producing many organic and inorganic compounds (#2) - organic pollution. They are also the cause of hydrogen sulfide pockets within the gravel - something none of the other types of filters can claim! The stagnant space below the filter plates quickly accumulate extremely high levels of POCs and DOCs (pariculate & dissolved organic compounds) which create conditions that encourage disease, parasites and opportunistic bacteria........ Their are three major facters affecting filter media; #1 - SSA (specific surface area), #2 - void space (for proper retention time), and #3 - cleanability. SSA ie; gravel has a surface area of about 100 sq. meters per cubic meter, plastic about 200, ceramic about 300, matting about 400, and sponge foam, being the best at about 500. It only takes one sq. meter of bio-film to metabolise nearly one gram of ammonia per day (#1 of the three forms of aquarium pollution, above), so the whole bottom of an aquarium isn't needed for removing ammonia/nitrite (the only form of pollution (out of the three), that an undergravel filter removes. Gravel filter media tends to clog easily - so much for the void space. And as for as cleanability, gravel has to be the hardest of any of the filter medias to clean....

A reverse flow power head on an undergravel filter pumps the water down the filters lift tubes and up through the gravel. A foam pre-filter on the powerhead will keep the solid waste from being pumped into the gravel, and the flow of water comming up through the gravel keeps the solid waste on top of the gravel in sight so it can be removed with a siphon. The gravel bed does not clog, the void space gives the retention time needed for the break down of DOCs, and the only thing to be cleaned is the pre-filter on the power head. The *reverse flow* of the water turns the other wise, out dated undergravel filter that only removed ammonia/nitrite, into one of the few filters that remove all three forms of pollution. It becomes from one of the worse filters, to one of the best......... Frank

Why not simply vacuum out the gravel during a water change? I don't use them now, but I've never had problems with a UGF in the past.

as long as you are diligent about the vacuuming and water changes there are no problems with undergravel filters. But it is too easy to become just a little lax and then stuff can start building up and polluting the tank.

Whatever you want to think, and frankly, I,ve got no bloody idea what your on about, but if it makes you happy or paranoid. I keep fish, I'm not a bloody Chemist.

As for so-called ammonia/nitrites and phosphate/DOCs what ever they are.. I don't worry about such things. I also don't have inturnal or exturnal filters All my tanks are planted and NOT over stocked, So there is not a problem, and I,ve been keeping fish for bloody years.

bassett

Thanks for all the advice on the UGF. The smallest reverse flow powerhead I could find was 125 GPH and I figured that would make my 10 gallon tank into a whirlpool. Instead I opted for a small air pump and have airstones providing small streams of bubbles up both tubes of the UGF. I am also running the 5-15 power filter that came with the kit.

After letting the tank run for 96 hours I put 3 neon tetras and 3 von rio tetras in. They sure are tiny, maybe ¾-1' each, not counting their tails. How many fish of that size can I put in a 10 gallon tank? I've heard 1' of fish per gallon, but 10 of these little guys doesn't seem like much.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

I also don't understand the vehement, religious arguments against the UGF. If you maintain your tank properly, it does what it's suppose to do. If you don't, I'm not sure how the other filters make up for the aquarist's laziness.

are......

Phosphate is used for making fertilizer. DOCs = dissolved organic compounds/ liquid uneaten foods and fish waste.

That says alot - you didn't tell us that when you were saying how good UGFs were, and RF powerheads were not needed.Not everyone has planted tanks, and most people tend to overstock!

I also have been keeping and breeding fish for years, over 40 of them. And I'm also not a chemist, but I do know how to keep my aquariums water quality good, and an UGF alone, won't do the job.

I agree, but that's a big 'if'. I used 100s of UGFs for years, both in my breeding and grow-out tanks at the house, and in the pet stores. Most people set them up wrong to start, using 'BB' size gravel instead of 3/8' to 1/2', and they don't remove the solids (uneaten foods and fish waste) daily - that's a lot of work.....

Todays wet/dry filters, such as the bio-wheel type, remove all three forms of pollution (dissolved compounds, inorganic pollutants, solid particulate waste) which means a lot less time spent on water maintenance.

All I'm trying to do is point out that for about the same price as an air pump and undergravel filter, one can get a filter that removes all three forms of pollution with a lot less maintenance, and end up with a lot better water quality to boot...... Frank

Neon Tetras are really not great starter fish. A couple of Zebra Danios may have been a better choice for cycling the tank. Letting the tank run for 96 hours doesn't do anything until there is an ammonia source placed into the environment to kick off the nitrogen cycle. Neons really prefer an established tank so don't be surprised if you lose one or two.

The nitrogen cycle can take 4 - 6 weeks to complete. Keep your eye on ammonia nitrites, and nitrates. The first two being of great importance.

Let me tell you, just about all the Aquariems in OZ, use Under gravel Filters, with very small gravel, in all there desplay tanks, the gravel IS the filter, and the one shop I use would have a hundred tanks, Marine, Tropical, Goldfish, Cyclids, Crabs and nasties. And the only Tanks that require outside filtering are the Goldfish, and some Meat eaters [Oscars] Frankly I can't see the point in spending $400 $500 on a big Elthem filter, when my management is up to par.. If I kept Oscars, then an outside filter would be needed, But I no-longer have space for such fish. [ In my opinion a pair of Oscars {4 to 5 inch} would require a 6 ft tank to themselves] and if your filters only cost the price of a Under gravel set-up $50 would cover it. And I do no that your going to get bugger all thats any good in filters for that price.

As for stocking numbers, I said early in the posts that my tanks only contained a few fish. on average, a 3 ft tank would have a couple of pairs of Angles, and a small catfish. Nothing more. It's called manageme Frankly I can't see the point in spending $400 $500 on a big Elthem filter, when my management is up to par.. If I kept Oscars, then an outside filter would be needed, But I no-longer have space for such fish. [ In my opinion a pair of Oscars {4 to 5 inch} would require a 6 ft tank to themselves] and if your filters only cost the price of a Under gravel set-up $50 would cover it. And I do no that your going to get bugger all thats any good in filters for that price.

As for stocking numbers, I said early in the posts that my tanks only contained a few fish. on average, a 3 ft tank would have a couple of pairs of Angles, and a small catfish. Nothing more. It's called management, and if thats correct, then constant water filtering and water changes for that matter are not required. I don't feed Flakes as such, They get 'Spirulina' frozen Brine shrimp and frozen Blood Worms.

bassett